Re-reading More's Utopia, I've decided that not all of Book I is absolutely necessary to read--the descriptions of the island of Utopia are far more interesting. This'll keep your total reading for this week the same, and cut way down on next week's. So, for 5/4, please just read:
- "Thomas More to Peter Giles, Greetings" (521-24)
- Book I, only through Raphael's dialog with the Cardinal about thieves, slaves and the death penalty (524-35)
- And then from Book II, just up to the section entitled "The Travels of the Utopians" (545-56)
Q1 (Sophia): How would you describe the tone of the opening letter to Peter Giles? If you had read it without knowing that Utopia wasn’t a real place, and that Raphael was a made-up character, what would you think? How does that effect the tone?
Q2 (James): What do you make of Raphael’s argument against private property? What historical events does More seem to be reacting to? (Hint: check out this passage, “Your sheep . . . that used to be so meek and eat so little. Now they are becoming so greedy and wild that they devour human beings themselves, as I hear,” p. 531).
Q3 (Emily): What do you think of Raphael’s alternative to capital punishment as a penalty for theft?
Q4 (Carrie): Why does More set Utopia in the Americas (i.e., in the “New World”)?
Q5 (Mardy): Based on what you have read about Utopia so far, what do you think would be the ramifications if certain of their laws and customs were imported to Taiwan? Pick a couple. (Bonus: Is a Utopia, or perfect society, possible?)
Q6 (Debbie): Say something about the “occupations” of the Utopians (550-53).
Q7 (Verthandi): Say something about the “social relations” of the Utopians (553-56).
Q8 (Valerie): What do you make of this Raphael Hythloday figure? How seriously do you think we should take him? (Hint: Look at the early footnote about his name; does that undercut what he says, or does it merely relieve More of responsibility for his character’s controversial ideas?)
This is Debby trying to figure out Question 6.
回覆刪除All Utopians devote themselves to farm work without any exception. They learn farming theories in schools and practice to use in farms. Besides, each Utopian has a particular occupation, such as spinning, masonry or carpentry. However, unlike European countries which have the restriction on occupations according to social classes, the Utopian society shows mobility of occupations. Specifically, Utopians are allowed to choose their careers as Hythloday says, “If anyone is attracted to another occupation, he is transferred by adoption into a family practicing the trade he prefers.”(551)
Although the Utopians engage in work for only six hours, they do not have the problem of productivity. In other European countries, a great number of people make no contribution to productivity, such as women, priests, the rich and beggars. As a result, the large population does not lead to productivity. By contrast, though Utopia does not own a large population, each Utopian is assigned to useful trades so they are able to gain a living. Also, the Utopians do their best to maintain everything they produce like “They are not only quick to repair damage, but foresighted in preventing it.”(553); therefore they do not require as many labors as other countries do.
This is Mardy’s answer for question 5:
回覆刪除My general idea of Utopia’s low connects to communism, but I also have to say is actually different. Its public property system and labor fair system are quite close to communism but its strict social status is totally different from communism. However, we know from Communism country that there is still strict social status in their society.
I think Utopian law would not work in Taiwan. For example, the career succession system indicate that if someone wants to change his career he has to be adopted by the other who’s career is what he want. In Taiwanese patriarchal society, having “son” to pass on the family is an important thing, only few people will to give their child away. On the other hand, Utopian law emphasizes on to respect for seniority and the order in family which is quite fit in our society.
This is Sophia trying to figure out Question 1.
回覆刪除If I had read Thomas More’s letter to Peter Giles without knowing that Utopia wasn’t a real place, and that Raphael Hytholoday was a made-up character, I would tend to believe that there was really a place named Utopia. At the beginning of the letter, More claims that “All I had to do was repeat what you and I together heard Raphael describe” (521), so readers might at first believe that the content of the book and the description of Utopia is recorded from an actual person. More even refers to some detailed things in Utopia, such as how wide the bridge in Utopia is (522). Besides talking about details, More also shows his principle (“I would rather be truthful than correct”) and his devotion of time to the book. Therefore, the tone is positive, persuasive and sincere in More’s writing.
As for the trouble about making sure of the location, “I’m quite ashamed not to know even the name of the ocean where this island lies …” (523), I think it just makes Utopia more mysterious and arouses people’s curiosity over the island… and More’s book. But if I knew that Utopia and Raphael were all fictional, I would like to think that Raphael is actually More himself. Therefore, to me, the tone becomes irony— Does More talk about things in the real society which are not like those in Utopia.
P.S. Did Peter Giles reply More?
This is Emily answering Q3:
回覆刪除Since the use of the capital punishment of the theft seems unjust, Raphael provided better means to replace the capital punishment of the theft. He took the example of the Polylerites. They didn’t treat the criminal in the bad way; however, they forced the criminals to do hard labor. Their friends can give them food and cloth in proper color, but money is prohibited. If they are lazy, they will be whipped. These criminal all dressed in the same distinctive color than other people. (p534) It prevented these criminal to relapse. (p535)
I think Raphael’s alternative probably works, probably not. We know that the crucial reason why the theft is so rampant is because of the poverty and the enclosure movement. The capital punishment to the theft is unjust because there are many people they take other’s money just for their lives. This alternative probably can deter people to steal again, and it also can give these people a chance to live. Nonetheless, who prove that these criminals will not escape? The Polyrite is sizable, so the policy is east to implement. England is big. It is hard to compare these two cases together.
this is Carrie trying to answer Q4:
回覆刪除In the 16th century, England began to search for "new world", and those merchants under the system of capitalism became the improvers of colonialism. And we also know that the author consider Europe as a place with many ills, especially the king's tendency. So I guess the author was dissatisfied with Europe, and he even had no expectation to change the current situation and social system. Under this social atmosphere, When He heard about the information of "the new world", he quickly placed his hope on this place, America. There is a interesting point: why did the author consider America as part of his own country even without any confirmation? Was it a unconsciousness of "colonialism"? Or was it just the results and affection of other countries' successful colonialism like Spain and Portugal? How could the author think that he can create a "Utopia" on a place in which people aren't Englishmen?
作者已經移除這則留言。
回覆刪除The name might negate the authenticity of things told by Hythloday, but it is more or less helpful for the real More to rid himself of the probable trouble in which he might get if he claimed those ideas were his own. By implicitly informing readers of the fact that the one taking here is somewhat a "nonsense peddler", More can write down whatever he wishes to convey to his heart's content without being directly responsible for the words. After all, it is unnecessary to care what a "nonsense peddler" says.
回覆刪除Having a tricky name,Raphael Hythloday, given by More, this figure's characteristic is distinguishing but a little weird. He is described as an experienced man having observed the world outside of his own country much. Can an experienced man totally talk nonsense? Even if he can, what he bases his nonsense on may be connected to his experiences abroad to some extent. The name seemingly negating the authenticity of what Hythloday says in the texts, his past and experiences, arranged intentionally by More, actually reinforces the trustworthiness of his discourse.